Jim says, “But it’s not really even that bad there. We’re still growing there and we’re finally playing at the Metro. I kind of find it hard to believe that we didn’t play there earlier. We tried to. I know a lot of the bands that play at the Metro and I mean, I’m not going to nay-say any bands, but I think we can definitely have at least as good an impact at that place. It just took forever to get there and, now we got it and I’m really happy about that. But it’s just…. Things in other places move quicker sometimes – like in this place.”

“Let’s talk about the move to Madison. Why did you pick that location – what’s the story behind that?”

Everyone laughs – the wine (combined with other substances) is kicking in.

Jim takes the lead. “Well, to be honest with you, I don’t know. I kind of suggested Madison and it was because it’s 200,000 people, it’s still considered a good city, it’s young, it’s relatively close to Chicago and I’d been there a few times to see a few bands and never had anything but a good time there. And we wanted to get out of Chicago. It wasn’t because of the scene there; we just wanted to get out of there to not be distracted and just really solidify a commitment.” Clif says, “Yeah, just, you know, hermit ourselves away for a little while.”

“That was actually a difficult thing to get everyone on the same page with – asking someone to pick up and leave their life that they had in Chicago to go to some strange place and start anew,” says Steve. “It’s a pretty big move; it’s a big decision! What ended up happening was instead of us walking around in Chicago as Jim the Bartender or Steve the Computer Guy who also plays in a band or whatever, when we moved to Madison we became musicians. That’s what we do and that’s who we are and that’s it. Did I know that was going to happen beforehand? No, but we all knew we had to go someplace, that just staying in Chicago wasn’t going to be good enough. Originally, the plan was to go out to Madison for six months and then move from there to another city for six months – continue the process of planting seeds. So there was kind of a business approach to things or at least some vision. But, yeah, Madison...we were doing to Newton EP right at the same time that our lease was up and we needed to sign another lease and it had to be a year so it was another year that we lived in that city.”

“How does it feel to try and be artists, to try and really apply yourselves to being as open as possible to creativity and possibility, when you’re so restricted by the most mundane logistics, like the fact that you have to sign a year lease, or you don’t have enough money to move?” I ask.

“Or you have to have a three minute radio song. How about that one?” Clif offers with a laugh. “That’s the one that we’re having problems with.”

“The year lease thing, something like that, yeah it’s restricting but at the same time you can find a way to make the most of that,” says Jim. “But for somebody to say to you...I don’t know. I’ve been hearing the term “radio song” for the past couple of weeks, and it’s not like anybody’s been asking for one but just it just comes up and it’s not a logical term to me. If something ends up being that length in time, with that many choruses, it’s going to end up that way because that’s the way it sounds the best to us, not because that’s the way that they want to hear it. And it’s not a rebellion; it’s not anything like that. It’s doing it for the sake of doing it well, the way that we really get off on it.”

“It’s just the way the song is,” says Clif. “It’s not like we’re sitting downstairs writing songs going, ‘Man, this would be some smash number one hit!’ What we do is not even remotely applicable to the radio. We can’t even...think about it. Someone’s said to us, ‘You should think about a radio single,’ and we’re like – ” he heaves a huge sigh – “‘Well, our shortest song is five-and-half minutes, so…’”