Jim Ward and Tony Hajjar
(Sparta)
July 2004
Philadelphia

I last spoke to Sparta singer - songwriter Jim Ward this past February. Back then, it had just been announced Sparta’s second album was going to be called Porcelain and would be the first joint Universal - Dreamworks record release early in the summer. It had also been announced that Sparta would play the fifth Coachella Music Festival in May, so Jim and I had a lot to talk about.

Just three months later, a great deal had changed. Porcelain’s release was moved to Geffen Records and pushed back to September. Many line-up drop-outs and switcheroos gave Sparta the chance to perform on Coachella’s main stage just ahead of two of their biggest idols, The Pixies and Radiohead. And Sparta had decided to hit the road supporting Incubus on a U.S. tour stretching over two solid months. Having been given the oppportunity to hear Porcelain in advance and given all that had occured, it was great to have the chance to talk more with the band that had come so far - literally and otherwise - from our mutual home town of El Paso, Texas.

Jim and drummer Tony Hajjar took time from the road to talk about everything that had already happened this year, as well as what was yet to come.

Jim Ward

When we spoke before we couldn’t really discuss the new album because I hadn’t heard it yet. But now that I’ve immersed myself in it, it’s interesting what I’ve heard. There was a lot of discussion by a lot of people who were anticipating a major change in direction for you guys. Yet to me Porcelain doesn’t seem like that – it seems like it was a logical step in maturity and musicianship for you. Do you feel like it was a really big change?

I don’t think it was a real big change. The thing is you only make albums every couple of years and you grow a lot between those in that time. So for me it seemed really natural because, you know, we made Wiretap, and then we toured, and on that tour we really became a band. So it took all of that. We made a record so early in the band’s life and then we went on tour and I think started to find ourselves musically, and the three years in between those records were pretty huge years for each of us. There’s a lot more growth.

There were all these musings on the message board and amongst groups of fans; they’d heard rumors and were saying, ‘Oh my god, they’re working with an orchestra and it’s going to be crazy!’ Because of those thing, there was anticipation of Porcelain being completely different or strange or even pretentious in a way. But to me it sounds like total, solid Sparta – it sounds more like Sparta than Sparta has ever sounded before. So I agree with you – you guys are very much the Sparta that you always had it in you to be, I suppose.

I think we’re just getting better at being us.

I agree. How has it been touring the new material? You’d only done a show or two when we last talked and now you’ve done Coachella and you’re currently on a much bigger tour.

It’s going good – it’s really fun to play. This album’s been leaked for a while, though, whether we like it or not. It’s kind of cool to see kids singing along; I’ll look at them and give them a little smile, like, “Aw, you fucker…”

[Laughs]

And they’ll look back at me like, “I know, sorry!”

Yeah, but the downloading thing is done only out of love, I hope. I wish the system were different that we wouldn’t have to worry about these things, but oh well.

Yeah.

Do you mind telling me why the release date got moved back?

Because we got switched to Geffen. We were with Dreamworks-Interscope but then it got switched to Geffen, so we got a whole new staff and, technically speaking, we had to wait for the third quarter budget.

Does that bug you, all that stuff that has really nothing to do with you as an artist?

I did my job – I made the record. Then I have to let them do what they do, and if that means moving us from one company to another I have to assume that they have our best interests in mind. Even though I know probably the bottom line to a lot of people at record companies is money, there’s a lot of people at record companies whose bottom line is getting music out.

That’s true – some people have their hearts in the right place.

Yep! I shouldn’t worry about it. It’s frustrating that the record’s been done and because it was done and up for so long with press people it got leaked, but it is what it is.

So tell me about the process: How did you particularly want to challenge yourself with the material that ended up on Porcelain? Was it as a songwriter, was it as a singer, and what kind of things were you looking to change about the way you had always done stuff before?

It was both, really. I mean, songwriter definitely – that’s my craft that I need to build on and get better at. Singing, definitely, obviously. It’s the second record I’ve ever sung on and to me still a really big obstacle in the path of making albums is singing, and lyrics, which I haven’t really written before. On this record I wrote all the lyrics. The band came to me and we talked about it and decided on it as a band, that I needed to sort of step up and do my job, which is to be the singer. And it’s important for me to be able to sing stuff that’s important to me, to have things that mean something to me and sing them because I want to sing them for years to come, you know?

Yeah, that’s a good point. And this album does seem to be really personal.

It is! It’s very personal. And I think it let me – not deal with stuff, I don’t want to say that – it let me put a lot of things into words that had kind of just been floating around.

Obviously you want to give these emotions or memories or ideas the best presentation you can and give them the most credit. So do you worry about putting such personal stuff out there that people might just blow off, that it might hurt that people don’t get it?

No – I would never think of that. My favorite thing is when somebody comes up to me and says, “This song got me through this sort of time in my life” or “I fell in love to this song” or whatever. And the people who connect with our music, that’s the most important thing to me – that’s why we play music publicly is for people to have the opportunity to connect with it. It’s never been for fame or money – that has no bearing on anything. But the high you get from somebody connecting with your music is so awesome. It’s such a compliment. So no, I mean, if people don’t get it…I mean, there’s nothing really to get or not to get. If it fits in your life, it fits in your life, and if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. There’s no therapy session from the record at all. It’s just what I was singing about. And some of it’s also me singing about other people’s lives that I’ve observed. “I” doesn’t always mean me.

How did you guys choose the songs off Porcelain that you were going to do live?

We basically went on a warm-up tour and just rotated them in and out, so we’ve played almost everything from the album. There’s a few songs that we can’t play right now because we’re not touring with keyboards. For this album, we could play almost everything, I guess.

I saw you twice in L.A. and then at Coachella, and I think you did rotate some, but then when I got the album after those shows it seems like the first seven songs were the ones I’d heard you do live and then the rest I hadn’t. But hopefully next time around I’ll hear the others.

Yeah, we’re not playing a really super-long song right now because I’m not playing with a keyboard right now – it’s “From Now to Never”, which is really gonna be fun live because it can go on and on. But we’ll play everything. Right now we’re touring with our string section in the computer, so we actually play and the orchestra comes out as well. And it’s cool – we control it all, I really like it.

That sounds beautiful! When are you coming back to L.A.?

We play the Pond and the Forum in mid-August.

I think I’ll be going back home then, so I’ll be out of town for those shows.

I wish we got to play Las Cruces on this tour but we’re going to Australia.

[Laughing] As much as love our hometown, if I had to pick between Las Cruces and Australia, I’m afraid I would have to take Australia.

I’ve just never gotten to play that arena there.

But I’m sure you grew up watching as many shows there as the rest of us.

Oh, yeah!

That would be kind of momentous, I can see that. Are you the kind of band that starts to muse new material while you’re touring and promoting an album that’s already done? Are you already kind of thinking of the next step, or are you just really focused on Porcelain right now?

I’m personally just focused on Porcelain; I’m not really thinking about anything new. But, you know, we write when we write – it’s never really planned.

So as a lyricist you’re not really carrying around a little notebook and jotting down things –

Oh, yeah, I do!

And as a songwriter, which you said that was one thing that was important to improve upon, did you do any sort of – this is kind of a dorky thing to say – studying for it? I’m sure you’ve been influenced by plenty of other lyricists in the past, but how did you come to terms with yourself as a lyricist? How did you practice getting things right?

Well, the one thing that I really wanted to do was like look at the stuff that moved me and wonder why it moved me. And then from there, when I would write something or I would start working on something, there were tons of times I’d start and just throw it out in the middle because it just wasn’t up to par. More than anything just doing that, really.

Was it important to you to have things rhyme or have the kind of meter that’s like poetry, or do you let it come out in whatever form?

Most of the time I let it come out the way it wants to come out and be what I think sounds good. I think about meter differently because I’m a guitar player before anything else. I’m trying to get out of that mindset. We all write as a band, then I go back as a singer and try and listen to it with a new perspective.

And then you mentioned improving as a singer. Did you work with vocal coaches, and do you find it hard to write in your range? How did you figure out how to deal with those sorts of logistics?

I worked with this guy, Ron Anderson, who’s sort of like the coach to the stars – he was Bjork’s coach, he’s a pretty big dude. I really needed to learn more about the mechanics of singing for me. It was awesome – we never discussed notes or pitch or anything. He just taught me how to use my throat in the right way.

That’s definitely one thing that I’ve noticed. When you guys pounded on the stage at Coachella, there was a noticeable change from just a couple of months prior. It was mind-blowing. And to me, you guys were the best thing on the field that weekend.

Thanks so much!

You’re totally welcome. It was a sight to behold and a sound that I’ll never forget. And I’m sure you guys will just keep getting better and better.

I hope so! It’s good that we’re getting so much practice with these arena shows and stuff where you go in and it’s not just fans. I get up in the morning and think, “Aw, fuck man, I don’t know…” [Laughing] I don’t know how many of these I can do where people just look at you blankly, you know? But by the time we finish playing, the redemption is when you turn it from a handful into a whole crowd at the end of the night cheering you off. Not throwing things, but actually thanking you for playing. That’s a compliment, and I love it!

I really hope that you guys win more people over. I hear so many of your contemporaries on the radio and I think, why are they playing that and they’re not playing Sparta?

It’s all time, you know? I’ve been through it before. [Laughing] I’m in no rush at all.

Tony Hajjar

So you’ll be on the road with Incubus for more than eight weeks. Do you like doing commitments like these, knowing what you’re up to for quite a few months, or do you prefer shorter jaunts?

I think if you ask the people in the band it’s different answers, but personally I enjoy being out, especially when there’s a reason to be out. I don’t mind being out for as long as need be. We can’t really ask for much more. Our record comes out next month and we get to be out with a great band and a really good touring act. I like being scheduled for what I’m doing, and we’re getting close to booking most of the year pretty soon, so we’ll be gone a lot.

I hope you’ll be doing your own tour soon and come back to L.A.

Yeah, we’ll do a headlining tour in October and November. We almost did a headlining tour instead of this tour but we decided to do that later.

What have you noticed about the reaction from fans so far on the new songs that you’ve been playing on tour?

Luckily, they’ve been really, really good responses. It’s really scary – it’s like presenting your new child to a mass audience every night. It’s a very intimate thing to write songs and give them your heart every single minute you’re writing them, and then go up on stage…you kind of close your eyes and hope that the reaction after the songs will be a good one, you know? But it’s been great! The crowd has been really receptive to the new songs. The record’s leaked, obviously, so some people know some of the new songs, but that’s kind of cool too, to be honest. It’s nice when we’re playing a song and someone’s trying to mimic the lyrics.

In the few weeks I’ve had the promo I’ve pretty much committed the whole thing to memory. They’re really powerful songs. “Lines in Sand” is my favorite – well, this week it’s my favorite –

[Laughs]

But they just stick with you. They’re really hard to get rid of because they’re so beautiful and intricate.

Wow, that’s a very big compliment – I appreciate that.

You guys always put yourselves out there to the max, and I think this album is a full realization of the potential that you’ve always had as Sparta. It’s really impressive to hear.

It really feels like it. It’s always a good feeling when you do a new record and it feels like the first. Even though we don’t have that many records, this one really felt like our first record. It felt like the most honest thing I’ve ever done or have been part of as a musician, and that was a really, really good feeling, because I’ve been lucky enough to have made a lot of records in the short time that I’ve been a musician. It really feels like the most honest thing I’ve ever done.

I was talking to Jim about the expectations people had for this record, and I believe a lot of people were nervous that you wouldn’t sound like Sparta anymore, that you might go off on a very different tangent. But I wouldn’t say it’s different, it’s just better. I don’t know if that makes sense to you.

It does, I mean, it’s us being a band. When we did Wiretap Scars, we were a band for I think five months and we had done nine live shows, none of which were with [bassist] Matt [Miller]. So when Matt joined the band, he seriously had two days to learn sixteen songs for pre-production with Jerry Finn. We wrote the record as a three-piece and it just didn’t feel absolutely right. I mean, we were proud of our songs, don’t get me wrong, but at the same time, we’re very band-oriented – there’s no ego, and we wanted whoever was going to be a member of the band to participate, you know what I mean? That’s what makes it feel like a band. And the comments you said are right in a sense, because with this record we wrote as a four-piece, we were a band for 18 months of touring – there’s a lot behind it. That’s the only difference. It was experience more than anything.

Yeah, that’s a good point. If anything you guys are tighter, and onstage together, you’re definitely a unit. Jim may be out there in the front singing and whatnot, but in the back you are just as powerful as he is, if not more so, because you go crazy behind that kit!

[Laughs]

What did you particularly want to challenge yourself with in terms of the writing and recording of Porcelain? Was there something about your musicianship or your performance that you really wanted to push or change with his album?

I think my focus is and has always been to get better at being a drummer that writes parts for a song and not one that writes parts to be a show-off. I want to be part of a band; I don’t wanna be a thing that sticks out in a band. My main focus for this record was to write parts that fit every single song without drowning the vocal lines. That’s the way I write and that’s the way I wanna be a drummer, because I want to be more of a musician than just the guy trying to show off every trick I have in the book.

We tracked the record live and my other focus was to have perfect takes. Most of the takes that you hear on the record are one take. Nothing was pasted together, nothing was a ProTools machine, it was one take. It was videotaped, too, so we have the video of the actual take that made the record. So I wanted to go for a perfect take every single time, and if there were guitar mistakes those were fixed later in the overdub. Obviously, I’m not perfect – I messed up here and there, you can hear it. It’s easy to fix a snare hit or a kick drum hit if it’s it played early or whatever the case, but for the most part I shot for as being perfect as I could at that moment in time. That was my focus – don’t stick out, play spot on, and just be part of the music – and hopefully I did some of that in this record.

I had no idea about all that one-take stuff - that's great. What are you going do with that videotape footage?

We put some of it together; actually, I wouldn’t say we – Jim put some of it together. We bought Final Cut Pro and Jim learned from one of our friends in El Paso who’s really good at Final Cut, and he put together like a 20-minute DVD that we’re eventually going to release. We’re not gonna release it for a while – we thought we were gonna release it with the record but that didn’t work out. So we’re just going to add more and make it longer, more of like a movie-type thing of how we made the record.

That sounds awesome – I can’t wait to see that footage. And I can’t wait to see you guys back here in L.A. for that headlining tour. As much fun as it is to see you in these big arena shows opening for a different fan base it’s always something a lot more special to see you doing catering to your own audience.

Yeah, of course – there’s nothing better. In any situation I would pick playing as a headliner, but we were lucky enough to be chosen by a really good band and they were gracious enough to let us play to their crowd, so of course we took the opportunity. We can’t wait to play to our audiences and completely on our terms – that’s what everybody wants. By the time we do it I think we’ll be spot-on with our songs, so that will be really good.

What are the songs from Porcelain that you are enjoying playing most right now?

I would say my favorite song to play, the one that hasn’t changed in the rotation at all lately, is “Hiss the Villain”. That and “While Oceana Sleeps”. Those are the two that I’m really enjoying.

I was telling Jim that at Coachella I kind of thought I knew what to expect from you guys, having seen the two small shows that you’d done in L.A. just before then. Coachella is getting bigger and bigger every year, and it’s like, great, Sparta’s gonna play, but then there’s The Cure and The Pixies and Radiohead! But when you guys hit that stage my jaw dropped, and I think you won over every person on that field. It was incredible.

Wow! That was a really hard place to come up from because you’re playing right before the most anticipated band on earth. [Laughing] But I think we did our thing and it turned out really good. It took like four or five songs for people to start actually giving us a little bit of respect – but that was the cool part, because it felt like there was a lot of work put into it, and that makes it a lot more gratifying in the end when people are clapping.